It's silly how privacy detractors try to associate so-and-so terrible group with any software that simply lets people talk without corporate or government surveillance, as if the concept of a private conversation is a strange and suspicious thing now.
I think in principle most people agree that it's appropriate under some limited circumstances for authorities to listen in to private conversations, given well-founded suspicion of illegal activities taking place, so digital tools making that outright impossible do pose a problem most people find a bit uncomfortable, whether or not they feel the benefits outweigh the downsides.
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The tools don’t make it “impossible” though, they just don’t actively assist.

The cops are free to get a warrant and use whatever tools they have in their arsenal.

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You allow limited circumstances, and then they build MYSTIC to record every phone call in the country illegally.
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> I think in principle most people agree that it's appropriate under some limited circumstances for authorities to listen in to private conversations, given well-founded suspicion of illegal activities taking place,

You're right. You know where the most illegal activities take place ? In the parliament. Can we listen to the private conversations of our representatives ? /s

To play devil's advocate: private face-to-face conversations do not allow for effective coordination of actions across large distances. There are plenty of good arguments for keeping the government out of everyone's private messages, but this kind of messaging and a conversation are not the same thing.
Aware that I'm reacting to someone playing devil's advocate...

> private face-to-face conversations do not allow for effective coordination of actions across large distances. <snip> this kind of messaging and a conversation are not the same thing.

Technology allows it. The same way it allows for myriad other applications that technology has made possible via extension of a base capability. I would argue that the technological ability extend 'topic X' makes it close enough to "the same thing".

If a Government has a problem with an app because it allows private conversation between physically distant individuals, then that Government likely also has a problem with private conversations between non-physically distant individuals. They just won't mention that because it's transparently obviously authoritarian.

The 'technology' angle only has political play because there will always be a core contingent of society that is scared enough of technology to have a much louder voice than their numbers would indicate.

Just as the governments power to violate anyones privacy when needed was previously tolerable only because it was physically limited.

ie warrants and wire taps and physically breaking in to buildings and safes could be done to anyone at any time, but not everyone, at the same time, all the time, from afar, without even being seen.

It's disingenuous to rationalize or excuse one without acknowledging the other.

And even the old form of the right and ability to break in to any safe still didn't magically un-burn a paper, so that argument against encryption was never valid.

Devils advocate is a critical role, but in this case it only serves the valuable role of showing that no matter how hard one tries, there is no validity to authoritarian/statist attacks on encryption, or indeed any self-actualized tech.

Yes, they do, it just takes longer to enact what was coordinated.

There's no fundamental difference between a conversation in a meadow and one online.

Sometimes quantity has a quality all of its own. The difference is in the number of people who can be involved and the distances that can be conquered, but those differences completely change the possibilities of online speech.
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Then where is the problem? Let‘s get rid of the online tools and go back to the meadows.
This is not true. We’ve all observed how differently people behave online. The anonymity aspect creates different social outcomes.

While there are arguments for preserving encryption, acting like online communication is the same as face to face is disingenuous.

Wow what a hit piece from Wired. And not even a month after their article "Seriously, Use Encrypted Messaging".

What the hell happened? Do they hate someone at SimpleX? Or hate Jack Dorsey? This is not journalism...

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They don't hate anyone. They just love money.
So what are they doing in the magazine business?
Although I have no real need to know about it, it's somewhat useful to read about what extremist groups are doing. I hadn't read the Wired article yet, so I thank the people linking to it (both at SimpleX and Hacker News) for bringing it to my attention.
>SimpleX design restricts message visibility and file retention, making it far from ideal for those looking to coordinate large networks.

Telegram's and discord's "news" style channel features have always seemed to attract the wrong kind of usage.

An article criticizing private messaging apps for dedicated features like that which enable hate groups and scammers would be more interesting. Encryption seems like a red herring.

I'm also curious how it would affect CSAM proliferation. That's one of the biggest angles of attack on encryption (see how many times the UK has tried to ban it). If their techniques mitigated that, then it could take done if the wind out of the sales of folks trying to weaken encryption
no one cares what enables hate groups, it's not 2022 anymore
Am I the only who finds it odd how Wired is treated as a person?

The article begins with

>The Wired article by David Gilbert

Acknowledging that there is a real person called David Gilbert who wrote the article and it wasn't just an amalgamation known as "Wired" who did. Yet later it says:

>Wired just a month earlier encouraged its readers to adopt encrypted messaging apps, making its current stance even more contradictory.

But that article was written by Lauren Goode and Michael Calore.

If Wired had a stance in this, it would be exercising editorial control, which some would criticize for censoring the authors. Instead, Wired publishes whatever its authors write, and then some criticize for writing contradictory articles.

If I was Wired I'd just shrug because you can't win.

When you own a trademark that is for publishing and you let people slap your logo on their writing, you take responsibility for what they say. That's the whole point of the trademark, to take credit for publishing the words. You can't have it both ways.
Wired can choose to be known for publishing conflicting view points though, of course.

(though if that is the case it hasn’t really made it through to me until now)

Usually, when real journalism publications do this, they make sure to prominently display "OPINION" before these writings, along with a disclaimer that the views of the author do not reflect the views of the editorial board.
In my mind, magazines have had more editorial discretion than "papers of record" like the News section of a national paper.

Though I would expect a magazine to have some more consistency in ideology.

Normally (at least in the now-distant pre-internet past), newspapers were supposed to be as unbiased as reasonably possible and just report the news, though they frequently had opinion sections ("op-ed") which were clearly marked as such. Magazines catered to specific groups of people with specific interests, so those could be more biased (e.g., Motor Trend was quite blatant about its pro-car bias, for obvious reasons). But yes, along with this was consistency in ideology: you wouldn't buy Motor Trend and expect to see both pro- and anti-car opinions expressed there, and if you didn't like cars and car culture, you wouldn't buy the magazine to begin with.
> Dozens of neo-Nazis are fleeing Telegram and moving to a relatively unknown secret chat app that has received funding from Twitter founder Jack Dorsey.

Isn't Telegram notorious at this point for being the go-to app for people distributing CSAM? Not trying to tar Telegram, and obviously, most people are using it legitimately. But it's crazy that Wired seems more concerned about what messaging service "dozens" of "neo-Nazis" (no doubt generously defined) are using rather than child exploitation. In fact, the article only mentions child exploitation in two paragraphs. It would be like an article about "Roblox Racists" that ignores its much more serious predator problem.

Telegram gets a bad name too much IMO. I use it with groups of thousands and nothing illegal. It's just a really good chat app if you have large groups. Way better than WhatsApp or signal.

Where I live in Spain it's super popular.

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IMO telegram is slavic whatsapp with some crypto spice. And almost any communication medium will be used to transmit bad things and managing that is an expensive arms race. If you really care to, you can probably find examples everywhere.
The Wired author it seems can't do anything better than political content, yuck - https://www.wired.com/author/david-gilbert/

It's a shame Wired is becoming this.

If you have to tell me about the bad Nazis I'm not interested in what you have to say. I'm going to be either be pushed to pro-Nazi or have a IQ above the Redditor NPCs who sit around circle jerking about who they don't like, rather than the actual issues in this world.

Heart disease is the biggest killer of Americans, what app do the McDonalds execs use?

> If you have to tell me about the bad Nazis I'm not interested in what you have to say. I'm going to be either be pushed to pro-Nazi or have a IQ above the Redditor NPCs who sit around circle jerking about who they don't like, rather than the actual issues in this world.

I’m having a real hard time understanding what you are trying to say here.

Yeah, the re-emergence of far-right nationalism isn't real! And if it is, why report on it?
I guarantee to you that Wired has been an intelligence front for 20 years at this point. This is an absolutely predictable position from them, and it's meant to be quoted in Congress and in courtrooms.
Citation needed. Wired has generally sided with hackers against government overreach, see eg this recent piece of investigative journalism:

https://www.wired.com/story/fbi-section-702-us-person-querie...

I was personally rather surprised to seem them posting the kind of mainstream media style hit piece justly criticized here.

Like everyone working for Wired is an undercover Fed?
I don't know anything about wired, but very few people need to be explicit feds for something like wired. Maybe one person high enough just has friends in the intelligence community, and that could more or less be enough - few or none are hired if their perspectives on key issues don't align with management.

It's a conspiracy theory, especially when talking about any specific media organization, but the intelligence agencies certainly did this before, and it came out in the Church committee. There are a few journalists who continue to work at big-name outlets despite being named as assets in the diplomatic cable leaks, for example. So it's not unreasonable to suggest, I'd say.

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I’ve been a subscriber to Wired for almost the entirety of the publication. I also subscribe to their RSS feed. Lately they have been heavily pushing articles painting conservatives as being the most destructive in tech, politics, and society. Their bias has been overwhelming to the point where I feel someone is pulling their strings to push a narrative. You can argue however you want about conservatives, but Wired is losing my ability to like them. They’re becoming a political rag. The Verge has also been dabbling in articles like this one as well lately too. There are forces here trying to influence the media recently.
The last 'conservative' guy spent years implementing Steve Bannon's plan to gut the federal government and installing the agents of Christian theocracy in the SCOTUS.

Destructive sounds like a pretty nice way of putting it.

[flagged]
"Recently"? Did you miss 2015-2020 when the media stopped even trying to hide that they're just sensationalist propagandists with agendas? Actual, proper journalism is impossible to come by.

On the bright side it's good you're finally noticing it now, at least. The media is a cancer upon society and it's been festering for ages.

Yes there is a lot of rage/clickbait now. Often times the title doesn't even align with the content...
Interesting, then, that a hit piece on encryption is exactly on trend for conservatives.
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I think it's flipped recently, or maybe I'm thinking of another kind.