Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering
Hi HN - Senior SWE at FAANG who has basically stayed afloat via stimulants which gradually ruined my life and emotional well being.

I finally broke the chains and more or less replaced these bad habits with healthier ones, which has been great. However, I can barely function at work and my contributions have dropped to near zero. It’s causing me immense stress in a culture that is cutthroat.

How can I rebuild a normal way of working?

I stopped taking amphetamine stimulants for similar reasons and with a similar outcome.

I ended up getting a prescription for Provigil (modafinil), a non-amphetamine stimulant.

It’s not nearly as dopaminergic as amphetamine, decidedly non-euphoric, but more motivationally stimulating than caffeine.

I found that the dose response lends itself well to former addicts, where taking the recommended dosage (100mg for me) does not result in a “high” nor does taking 3-4x that dosage, and is quite unpleasant to do so.

As well as being long lived, a single dose lasting 10-12 hours, not a time release formulation mind you, reduces the moreish hunger of short duration stimulants.

I take provigil as well. I was wise enough to stop taking Adderall and Dexedrine when I ended my schooling. I never had a prescription, but these were easy enough to find. Provigil is not an every day tool for me, only once and a while, but it gets the job done.
  • swah
  • ·
  • 1 week ago
  • ·
  • [ - ]
That did nothing for me - I kinda theorize it can't compete with my caffeine usage ie I would have to drop caffeine to restart at a baseline of sorts... (Or I just got powder..)
I’ve read numerous anecdotal accounts that espouse this. Not discounting yours at all, as the precise mechanism of action of modafinil is not well understood despite decades of human testing [0][1]. From my limited understanding, it increases histamine, the effect opposite of anti-histamines like diphenhydramine.

[0]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15991923/ [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22640618/

Anecdotally, despite being a very subtle effect, in my specific set of circumstances, modafinil has been life changing.

If all it is doing is adding histamine could you get it from food?
Presumably, modafinil causes production and continual release of histamine via mast cells in quantities far greater and faster than the most histamine rich foods.

Fermented fish tops the list, which, personally, sounds profoundly unappealing for breakfast.

But to each their own, maybe a cup of coffee and a can of surströmming is the ultimate morning combo

How do you get a prescription for that? Is that an ADHD med?
My psychiatrist recommended it. I was around two years out from quitting a daily 60mg Vyvanse habit and still having a rough time. Unmotivated, brain fog, depressed, etc.

Effexor caused suicidal ideation, Strattera was too abusable, Wellbutrin worked ok at first but caused hives when I increased the dose to the recommended level.

Modafinil is more commonly prescribed for narcolepsy, or shift work sleep disorder, requiring a sleep study. But allows for off-label use at doctors discretion.

It has a fairly low addiction profile, which I was suspicious of given my history, but I don’t feel the need to take it every day, and usually abstain on weekends.

I also tried Nuvigil (armodafinil), which works similarly but for longer and at a lower dose. But it was a bit jagged, and overkill, I don’t need 16 hours of stimulation.

There is an interesting question underlying this scenario - is working in a cutthroat culture "normal" in the first place? If you needed stimulants to succeed there, and are trying to now live a healthier life, does that job even fit in that healthier life? Or should the answer to your question be more along the lines of finding a new role where your productivity meshes better with the expectations?
Agreed. It's great that you are looking for a healthier life. Try to find a healthier job.
  • ·
  • 1 week ago
  • ·
  • [ - ]
I hate that at times, it feels I'm postponing the same outcome.

I was able to come back to 30mg Vyvanse daily, 50mg made me super impatient, fight with my gf and just be short-tempered with everyone, plus the productivity window was always reducing after some time.

But even at 30mg, it's just not the same effect as 14 years ago of course, and taking breaks can only do so much. Now 30mg feels like enough just for getting out of bed and doing a normal day.

Low dose (25mg) sertraline for a few months fixed the temper thing. Good sleep is a must. Still finding a way to take it easy and reduce the stimulant further, I'm still able to engage on technical things deeply that interest me and live my life fine, but I'm not cut out for the stress of a more senior position, not unless I start to make compromises, so that's not the avenue I'm pursuing at least.

I do have ADHD, diagnosed as a kid and the pattern worsened in college until I started treatment, if that matters.

you just gotta rawdog it and learn how to function without it.

you're chasing two rabbits here: a short-term one and a long-term one.

you're smart enough to know which of those two matters more.

you're smart enough to know all those energy and focus you had is just borrowed time.

you're smart enough to know you've been digging yourself in a hole of massive withdrawal which can take weeks and months.

you're smart enough to know that substituting it with other uppers like caffeine, nicotine, will still keep you dependent.

just rawdog it cold turkey, exercise consistently, get rid of junk food, eat meats and veggies, hydrate properly, and rest enough.

just suck it up and etch in your head that getting yourself back kn track takes time and there will be no immediate results.

sculpting art from a block of marble takes time, it will be days and weeks of you doing the same damn thing even if you dont enjoy it, even if you dont feel good about it, even if you dont see your desired outcomes yet.

Stimulants? Like coffee?

Or am I being really naive right now?

If it's anything stronger than coffee, here's my recommendation:

1. Wim Hof Method from time to time (it boosts adrelanine temporarily)

2. Exercise (boosts all kinds of stuff)

3. Breathing meditation to train your attention

He's almost certainly talking about amphetamines.
Thanks, me being naive then. My recommendations still stand as that is what I'd do as all 3 of them have stimulant-like effects.
Oh yeah, definitely good advice.
I haven't ingested stimulants since university, but a few surprising things put me in that familiar state of deep, almost euphoric concentration. I don't know why any of these work; it's up to you to determine how crazy I am.

1. NAC. I don't like this because it also seems to cause heartburn and blunts me.

2. Home brewed kefir. Overbrewing has the opposite effect, so you have to be diligent about changing the grains every 24 hours.

3. Saline + iodine + baby shampoo nasal rinse. The weirdest one, but I swear it's true. Literally clears the head.

All of these are relatively cheap and low risk.

Thanks. Benfotiamine 150 mg twice a day had stimulant-like effects on me during the first week or 2 of my taking it. (Now it just gives me more energy without any CNS-stimulant effects.)
Why iodine of all thing? Is it not the same as using iodized salt which is toxic to the linings?
More specifically, it's Betadine's sore throat gargle formulation, which is povidone-iodine. I don't know if that's any different. It's presumably safe when properly diluted. I imagine it's suggested for its antibacterial effects. All of the actions I've listed are antimicrobial to a degree, which can leave you feeling sharp and focused if not healthy otherwise. That's my best guess at least.
What is NAC?
Were you taking stimulants for a condition (ADHD etc)?

Amphetamine Stimulants affect those with ADHD differently to neurotypical people, so use with much caution.

In the case of recreational or dependant use (non-medical use etc) Perhaps seek professional help. Additionally consider the pressures of a FAANG workplace and whether it is the right fit for you.

No matter the money, I could not work in a fast-paced, cutthroat environment. I need fair-paced and understanding etc

  • ·
  • 1 week ago
  • ·
  • [ - ]
Reading r/decaf you see a lot of people saying it takes about 6 months to reach a new normal after years of daily caffeine use. The brain has to rebuild and recover. I'd imagine for stronger stimulants it will be similar. Maybe try to taper off?
  • ·
  • 1 week ago
  • ·
  • [ - ]
I would recommend going to some online NA or Smart Recovery meetings. At the levels you probably took it at (I think I’m making a good assumption here) it’s most likely prescription pill abuse - addiction. What you are feeling right now is withdrawal. You reinforced the behavior with working with a drug and now the drug is gone. This is the same thing people that get off any drug/alcohol are going through right now, and you will find solidarity and support in those groups.

There are literally online zoom meetings 24/7, google around. You don’t have to say anything, just listen.

Have you considered talking with a mental health professional?

I ask because it sounds more nuanced than another person’s “it works on my machine” is likely to address.

And your employer probably provides an EAP benefit that covers it. This is why.

  • ·
  • 1 week ago
  • ·
  • [ - ]
I drink coffee that's a mix of 33% regular / 66% swiss-water decaf. It's the best of both worlds, you can keep yourself awake but you're not getting the huge highs and lows of regular coffee.

My flow has been massively stable since I started doing this.

Do you have ADHD? Maybe you should be using stimulants…
I don't have ADHD - stimulants make me a lot more productive until tolerance kicks in. It's easier to focus on boring tasks, and I'm high so work that normally isn't fun becomes fun.

Once the tolerance kicks in (1-2 weeks of use) the high becomes mild / nonexistant and it no longer boosts my productivity

For my most boring tasks what I do is I write my to do list and break the work down into a stupid level of detail including all the practical steps too.

Like: open word document, review section 1, save document, email link to x.

This makes getting started easy enough and hopefully I pick up momentum and engagement as I go.

Interesting. OK. I have ADHD and I don't feel anything resembling a "high." If anything, I feel normal and relaxed on stimulants. But it also makes me able to focus and work hard, and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I have professionally or personally without it. Not just my job, but my marriage too was falling apart prior to getting on medication. What you wrote in the original post could have been written by an ADHD person, in which case I would recommend staying on medication.

Idk, it's complicated. I think a lot of the moral handwringing about stimulant use is misguided and it shouldn't be stigmatized. But I'm somewhat biased in that stimulants literally saved my life, after I had been avoiding medication for years prior based on the stigma. I for sure have ADHD though.

Have you talked to a psychiatrist? You may have a serious mental condition that needs treatment, even if it isn't ADHD treated by amphetamine salts. Modafinil, maybe.

I think the easiest distinction is the high part. I assume you have never crushed up Ritalin and/or Adderall to snort (I have). The guys taking it non-medicinally get a clear high, and tolerance demands higher doses. The best/worst one is desoxyn. That stuff is heavenly, but so addictive. After scoring a bottle of it I decided that I was never going to take any amphetamine ever again.

From what I understand, ADHD folks do not get the high part, so the addiction risk is not there.

I don’t think there is any chemical dependency difference. I could quit stimulants if I want to (and I have, unintentionally during the shortage when I was forced to go without). But why would I want to? I’m addicted to not being a total failure in life.

But I am very curious about how people like you describe the effect of these drugs, as it is so foreign to me. What do you even mean by “heavenly”?

Some people can retreat to a mind palace in their head. I have a mind bouncy castle. It’s like confetti in a wind tunnel. Stimulants calm the storm and give me control over my inner thoughts, and mastering oneself is the first step to having any agency in the world. That’s all they are to me.

But a “high”? Never experienced that, other than the psychological high that comes with being high agency.

> You may have a serious mental condition that needs treatment

Maybe, but I wouldn't say serious. Just standard life malaise.

I have talked to a psych - he gave me a concerta prescription after talking for 20 minutes lol. That's the stimulant I'm talking about. It's basically super coffee that lasts all day, and like I said, the high is by far the best part.

Malaise can be due to an underlying condition causing a biochemical imbalance. Stimulants are often prescribed as a first line defense for good reasons, but you can go back and let them know why it isn’t working.
adhd is real (i got adhd-pi myself) but its wild to suggest these things without asking the person:

- if he's exercising consistently

- if he's eating properly without junk food

- if he's hydrating properly instead of other beverages

- if his overall physical activity has a good baseline

- if he's in a line of work where his interest, competence, and the challenge of the work is a good match.

most people's inability to focus comes down to lack of self-discipline and self-care, or just being in a wrong place, wrong time, or wrong environment.

This. Do you feel "normal" when on stimulants? The average person feels like they smoked meth. If you feel your thoughts coming under control, it might be a sign (emphasis on might).

Go see a doctor urgently. If they say you don't have anything and should never take stimulants, see a therapist to learn to live with the reality of who you are and where you want to be.

Start eating keto and get good sleep. Stay quiet and dont admit to lowered productivity, let the mistakes happen and be friendly.
Are you comfortable to say which stimulant that is?

Maybe change teams or even downlevel?

Leave Amazon